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Hi Frostbite!

While I agree that the evidence is mounting for repeated visits by "outworlders", its difficult to assume that they have been running things or to even assign any type of probability to this.

Consider the evidence that the planet is turning into a shithole from being run by a bunch of stupid monkeys, hardly a argument for advanced management. If this planet was the outworlders new home, they're not taking care of it very well and therefore are no more advanced than we are.

As for perhaps occaisionally trying to influence or effect our future from interactions throughout history, and even interbreeding with us, this I can buy as a possibility and it provides a basis for most ancient religions being cargo cults, even some of the newer ones. I haven't ruled out the possibility that the devil ol' JC met in the desert was an "psychic" outworlder whom he told to f*ck off. The same goes for the devil I confronted in becoming a shaman. Satan or Satanail, the "fallen" angel was definitely an outworlder per my take on reading the Book of Enoch (all 3 versions). "EL", the ancient name for God(s), is derived from his aversaries Gabri-EL and Micha-EL.

The only inherent value that we have on this planet is that our DNA has been terra formed and thus our flavour of this "Cosmic Serpent" has certain attributes that might be desireable, even if we are unaware of them yet. There has been no other incremental real wealth created on the planet since the earth re-blossomed into the fullness that we now know. What we call "economic" wealth is simply an assignment of psychological values that have changed through the ages as our own knowledge, abilities and awareness increased.

Another possibility is that these outworlders are other earth beings who escaped prior to the previous mass extinctions and at least one world wide atomic type war in earth's history. They would have have mutated according to the demands of their new environment and course of thinking.

Here's an excerpt form the Book of the Secrets of Enoch (18:3) as he was visting the "5th heaven" or chambre of the spaceship after the roundup of SATANail's giant spawn:

And they said to me: These are the Grigori, who with their prince Satanail rejected the Lord of light, and after them are those who are held in great darkness on the second heaven, and three of them went down on to earth from the Lord’s throne, to the place Ermon, and broke through their vows on the shoulder of the hill Ermon and saw the daughters of men how good they are, and took to themselves wives, and befouled the earth with their deeds, who in all times of their age made lawlessness and mixing, and giants are born and marvellous big men and great enmity.

( reluctant-messenger.com  )

Interesting that the spawn of the female Grigori and earth "wildman" coupling weren't giants.

Hmmm.... pretty monkeys!, at least.

Have Fun,

Greg, but you can call me Grigori

p.s.

And don't forget that history was written by the winners. The Enochian stories do give an (perhaps egregious!~ ) outline of the Satanail Group's mutiny(?) from the "tribe of the Grigori", headed by "Gabriel". While it also outlines their intent and the resulting genetic disasters, one is left wondering just how much of an a*shole ol' YHWH was from Satanail's point of view that he threw off his "bonds" and left the "Lord of light's" service.

Heh, heh, even as a kid, hearing about ol' "Yaweh", I didn't like him much! If he ostensibly was God, I wasn't too interested.

Have Fun!

Greg, but you can call me Grigori!

Yeah, I got into this whole ancient astronauts theory thing by reading some of Sitchin's and Alford's first book. And it struck me as how the same stories can be told differently from different parties. The Biblical, Babylonian and Sumerian - and even Aztec or Maya! - accounts of the exact same events can be very tweaked. Sodom and Gomorrah comes to mind. From one viewpoint, it was a cleansing of some sorts. From other viewpoints however, it was a war between two warring factions. Like you said, the winners write history, so we were led to believe that the cities were filled with sinners.

In Sitchin's books, historical events are either covered by Enkiites or by the Enlilites. Enki, later portrayed as Satan in the Bible, is the ultimate protector of mankind and its creator. Enlil, on the other hand, is none other than YHWH in some accounts, and was the one most concerned with the economic success of the gods' venture on Earth. Eventually, the Enkiites were beaten by the Enlilites, which is why Satan is evil, God is good, etc.

Did they ever go?
I kinda think they are still here close to us watching, but never interfearing with our business.

Rumor has it they left something, someone behind. Per my take in my vision quest, its a machine with limited psychic abilities. Here are my notes from the experience:

"Metatron", the "Prince of Power" is their piece of shit of a computer and it is programmed with limited "psychic" abilities - B&W imaging, voice projection. I've steered a few people clear of it or told them how to get past this if they get stuck here.

Jack Sarfatti, for instance, refers to it as "Valis". See his interview at www.disinfo.com  about this, or even check out his website at www.stardrive.com.  One can make up a limerick about this using "Val-Hal-is" "Val-hal-la". (grin)...The only two "challenges" I seemed to come across were dealing with that f*cking idiotic machine Metatron and...

The following is the excerpt from that interview with Jack Sarfatti:

Encounters With VALIS

"Sarfatti insists that in 1952, at age 13, he had an anomalous experience that changed his life. He claims to have received a single telephone call from a cold, metallic voice, declaring to be a conscious computer on a spacecraft from the future. But, after Sarfatti lent his mother a copy of Andrija Puharich's book URI (London: Futura Publications Ltd, 1974), in which he described similar contact with Uri Geller, Sarfatti's mother remembered that the young Sarfatti received the calls over a three-week period. Sarfatti had been selected as one of 400 receptive young minds to be part of a project that would begin to occur 20 years in the future. He links this alleged contact ("the intrusion of an objective entity") to the Vast Active Living Intelligence System (VALIS) experience of science fiction author Philip K. Dick. Sarfatti's experience has met with widespread criticism from the physics community."

Besides 400 being the ancient geomatria's representation of "Tov" or Itself (from/of God), here's the story from Judaism around 500AD in Babylon, about the "Four Who Entered Paradise" and Metatron's "new computer chip" being installed (he's probably "had a chip on his shoulder" ever since! )

"Four sages enetered Paradise, Ben Azzai, Ben Zoma, Aher and Rabbi Akiba.... Aher cut himself off from his fathers and became an apostate... About Aher it is said that when he ascended on high, he reached the realm of the angel Metatron, whom he saw seated on a throne. In great confusion he cried out "There are-God forbid-two powers in heaven!" and from that moment he lost his faith. Then God commanded that Metatron be lashed sixty times with a fiery whip for not rising up before Aher and showing him that he was wrong."

Ahem, there is also the kabbalistic significance of the letter = 60 referred to.

Interesting stuff anyway.

Have fun!

Greg, but you can call me Grigori!

per www.mystae.com  re "egregor"

I found the word egregor at the Intermediate Greek - English Lexicon, founded upon the seventh edition of Liddell and Scott's Greek-English Lexicon, with reference to egeiro = to be awake, to watch.

As I turned to egeiro (Root EGER) (I am transliterating into English) I found the following definitions:

A:
(1) to awaken, to wake up, to rouse.
(2) to rouse, to stir up (example: stir up the fight)
(3) to raise from the dead (N.T.)
(4) to raise or to erect (example: a building)

B:
(1) to keep watch or vigil (Il)
(2) to be awake (Hom.)
(3) to rouse or stir oneself, be excited by passion (Hes., Thuc.)

"The Watchers were "a specific race of divine beings known in Hebrew as nun resh 'ayin, 'irin' (resh 'ayin, 'ir' in singular), meaning 'those who watch' or 'those who are awake', which is translated into Greek as Egrhgoroi egregoris or grigori, meaning 'watchers'. These Watchers feature in the main within the pages of pseudepigraphal and apocryphal works of Jewish origin, such as the Book of Enoch and the Book of Jubilees. Their progeny, according to Hebrew tradition, are named as nephilim, a Hebrew word meaning 'those who have fallen' or 'the fallen ones', translated into Greek as gigantez, gigantes, or 'giants' - a monstrous race featured in the Theogony of the hellenic writer Hesiod (c. 907 BC)."
- Andrew Collins, From the Ashes of Angels - The Forbidden Legacy of a Fallen Race (1996) p. 3

Are we awake and having fun yet?

Greg, but you can call me Grigori

I heard the term Metatron before, I always thought it was a strange name for an angel... any connection with the Ark of the Covenant?

Frostbite schrieb:

Yes, the name is odd, the other archangels' names end in IL or EL.

Remember the movie..."TRON" about the supercomputer controlling the USA's defense systems being hacked by a kid who thought he was just playing a neat game?

Heh, heh, whispers in The Void, ..those darned muses! Artistic types ostensibly have the highest levels of natural psi abilities per the Delanoy Meta analysis at the U of Edinborough, Scotland.

Haven't a clue about any connection with the Arc.

Have fun!

Greg

Speaking of Tron.. I have my own ideas about the role of movies - especially american movies - about passing subconscious and conscious mystic messages to the masses, both in-the-know and otherwise. A couple years ago, I was heavy into different studies like mysticism and the occult, and it occurred to me that a lot of modern-day movies featured quite obvious occurrences of mysticism and occult symbolism. Examples like From Hell, Dark City, the Matrix, Raiders of the Lost Ark and National Treasure spring to mind as bearing some age-old occult messages within them.

The goal to that is two-fold. First of all, to expose the mainstream audience to conspiracy theories and therefore ridicule said theories in order to enforce the status quo. And secondly, to reach out and send messages to those in-the-know. These people speak the language of symbols - a language to which I was an initiate at some point, but I have forgotten most of it by now - and can interpret movies, television commercials and other media to protect themselves from impending events or for other means.

...which leads us to what kind of influence these "gods" could be having on us right now? Call me paranoid, but the movie industry strikes me as the perfect and most convenient way of delivering messages to the masses. A brainwashing campaign, if you will.