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Intensity schrieb:

I said it is unposible to flay witch thinks witch are hever then air to flay but i mean witch things witch made by human. And it said the hole scintis esteblischment before 105 year.
Also abaut 1900. And now the scintist said the same abaut the light. They said that it is unposible to be faster than light.

That's still not true...

Hot air balloons have been around for longer than that, so have kites.

There were no scientific reasons to claim that nothing heavier than air would be able to fly; instead there were many reasons to say the opposite!

For saying that we cannot travel faster than light there are many reasons, sound and solid arguments so this 'comparisation' is rather pointless

Intensity schrieb:

This ballons are not havyer than air, they are because of the hot air light. So they flight the teori at this time was that thinks witch are havyer than air. And i said to those time it were enach reasons that that was unposible. All mashins fore example the steam power makes not enauch power to lift anithink in air so the people think it is unposible. Now with
modern technologies it is easy to say yes. But in 100 years they say with he light the same that it is posible. The light wll is only a wall of many witch the human have broaken and will brack. 50 years ago people said it is unposible to flay faster than sonic and it was witch thair possibility and now it is the same with the light. Maybe the light wal is much heavyer to bracke but it will be brocken and i think stiill in ouer century!!

Of course the balloon and the basket are heavier than air. By the same - but more complex - reasoning one could say that an airplane is of course not heavier than air.

Yes, reasons such as "we can't make enough power right now"...but those are all radically different from laws of nature. "Nothing heavier than air can fly" has never been a scientific law, E=MC2 is simply a law which cannot be broken...

Please try to read something about Einstein's laws...it is nót the same!

Intensity schrieb:

Sorry, but that's wrong. These ballons are lighter than air, if u take the complete system. A kite isn't and planes aren't as well. These objects are havier than air and have to produce a force which holds them in the air against gravity.
I would have lots of link, but only in german to proove u, so I looked at google and found that.
encarta.msn.com 

So u see gliders or kites produce their lift by decending or when air flows over their wings. All heavier than air vehicles have to produce lift by using the effect described by Newton F=m*a and actio=reactio. So they divert enough air with their wing to produce enough force to hold their hight (It's hard to explain in English for me).

Intensity schrieb:

Perhaps at the very begining of our universe. Perhaps not, we don't know. Else ur right.
And of course supersonic and faster than speed of light CAN'T be compared! They are defenetly different, I agree with u there.

Thomas Mc Kie

"]I posted the following on the black board of LegendaryTimes , not sure if it will get through. It is a response to the poll question, about how many visits the Gods have made...what do you think?

The ETI's visited more times than we can count. The question is how many different types were there and why?

I'm a European, but was outed as a NA (North American) Raven shaman and my "vision quest" path included studying the Kabbalah - Hebrew mysticism or the secret dogma of "God". I've since expanded the Kabbalistic analysis to include Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Norse mythology and Christianity. I've essentially "unfolded" the Kabbalistic "Tree of Life" into the "Tree of Knowledge". For an overview of the "Tree of Life", see www.byzant.com  .

This "Tree of Knowledge" also covers our ancient history and does indicate that there was interaction between "creators" and humankind. NA natives make a distinction between "The Creator" and "creators". There were many of the latter. In NA the two most frequently referenced are what are called the "blues" (blue uniforms) and the "greys" (grey skinned). They were beings from "Star Nations" and some of their visits were to recruit "Star Warriors" from amongst the native peoples. My work implies at least two and potentially as many as seven different types or species of aliens visited and interacted with the human beings of this planet.

For the Judeo-Christian literature on alien interaction, read the Book of Enoch (OT apocrypha), all three versions, as well as the primeval parts of Genesis in the bible (up to Chapter 11). While your interpretation may differ, this is an account of the "fallen angels", or spacefarers that went AWOL or mutinied and settled on earth. It seems that SATANail and a couple of hundred boys and girls found humankind attractive. SATANail was of the "tribe" of the GRIGORI (Gregory), the leader of the tribe was GABRIEL and the captain of the ship was YAHWEH. However, when the offspring of the deserters' males created giants that started to "devour mankind", enough was enough, and GABRIEL started to round up the mutineers and their giant offspring (the female mutineers and male human offspring grew to normal sizes - hence tracing one's "Jewishness" through the matriarchal family tree).

He had difficulty and had to enlist the help of another "tribe's" troops, headed by someone called MICHAEL. So, in essence, Judaism before the reformation was a cargo cult, worshipping "aliens" as Gods. The inference can be traced to Islaam, where old Moe (Mohammed, blessed be his name) wrote down all of Gabriel's revelations and advice as best he could in what is now known as the Koran. The Hindu Bhagavad-Gita contains an account of a/the war, the capabilities of the "Gods" as well as their aircraft/spaceships or "vimanas". The names changed from culture to culture from the "confusion of tongues". Sitchin's work explores and theorizes about this contact from a middle-eastern centric point of view.

Reviewing old JC's parables and directions in this context (The Book of Enoch was canon or Temple Holy Scripture at the time) provides the interpretation that he was trying to direct faith away from alien worship or "false gods" with a mind to allowing us to develop our own innate abilities. However, in the 2,000 years since, we've not come a long way, until now that is. We've intermixed enough such that the data from the Human Genome Project shows that we're all 4th or 5th cousins.

So, irrespective of the inference that an element of the "why" as to our existence could be a massive breeding experiment between aliens and "pretty monkeys!" (what's done is done), the mystery remains of why we should be such a desirable commodity to even warrant "aliens" curiosity, with their superior technology, etc. The answer obviously doesn't lie in our demonstrated intelligence and resulting societal structures. Unless everyone reading this is asleep at the switch, its should be fairly obvious that we're on an exponential curve towards our own extinction resulting from our earth destroying machinations.

The "why?" answers then must lie in the direction of our existing biology and potential intelligence and resulting abilities. There has been a manifestation of these various abilities by what we've called "saints, prophets and holy men and women" of all faiths. This seems to indicate an element of what we call "spirituality" is involved in order to develop these abilities. The term is fraught with baggage. My preference is for a logical or rhetorical approach, even to or especially because of terms such as "spirituality". Clues are to be found in all cultures' mythology... even asatru of all things (great big grin!). As a for instance, examine the concepts of the "Yggdrasil Tree" (us, but from an "upside down" point of view, such that the "roots" are in our brains) and "Odin's eye in Mimir's well" (remote viewing is like looking through a round hole).

I'd like to let you absorb those thoughts and ideas for awhile. Questions and comments to develop this thread are encouraged... I don't have all of the answers, but I do have a great many.

Greg
Raven shaman
"Raven flies into The Void where all knowledge waits for us".

An intro to the discussion of our abilities has been posted previously in the Ancient Astronauts resolved thread.

Pravda.RU:Top Stories:More in detail

14:48 2002-04-30

THE MAP OF "THE CREATOR"

A find of Bashkir scientists contraries to traditional notions of human history: stone slab which is 120 million years covered with the relief map of Ural Region.

This seems to be impossible. Scientists of Bashkir State University have found indisputable proofs of an ancient highly developed civilization’s existence. The question is about a great plate found in 1999, with picture of the region done according to an unknown technology. This is a real relief map. Today’s military has almost similar maps. The map contains civil engineering works: a system of channels with a length of about 12,000 km, weirs, powerful dams. Not far from the channels, diamond-shaped grounds are shown, whose destination is unknown. The map also contains some inscriptions. Even numerous inscriptions. At first, the scientists thought that was Old Chinese language. Though, it turned out that the subscriptions were done in a hieroglyphic-syllabic language of unknown origin. The scientists never managed to read it…

“The more I learn the more I understand that I know nothing,” – the doctor of physical and mathematical science, professor of Bashkir State University, Alexander Chuvyrov admits. Namely Chuvyrov made that sensational find. Already in 1995, the professor and his post-graduate student from China Huan Hun decided to study the hypothesis of possible migration of Old Chinese population to the territory of Siberia and Ural. In an expedition to Bashkiria, they found several rock carvings done in Old Chinese language. These finds confirmed the hypothesis of Chinese migrants. The subscriptions were read. They mostly contained information about trade bargains, marriage and death registration.

Though, during the searches, notes dated the 18th century were found in archives of Ufa governor-general. They reported about 200 unusual stone slabs which were situated not far from the Chandar village, Nurimanov Region. Chuvyrov and his colleague at once decided that slabs could be connected with Chinese migrants. Archive notes also reported that in 17th-18th centuries, expeditions of Russian scientists who investigated Ural Region had studied 200 white slabs with signs and patterns, while in early 20th century, archaeologist A.Schmidt also had seen some white slabs in Bashkiria. This made the scientist start the search. In 1998, after having formed a team of his students, Chuvyrov launched the work. He hired a helicopter, and the first expedition carried a flying around of the places where the slabs were supposed to be. Though, despite all efforts, the ancient slabs were not found. Chuvyrov was very upset and even thought the slabs were just a beautiful legend.

The luck was unexpected. During one of Chuvyrov’s trips to the village, ex-chairman of the local agricultural council, Vladimir Krainov, came to him (apropos, in the house of Krainov’s father, archaelogist Schmidt once staid) and said: “Are you searching for some stone slabs? I have a strange slab in my yard.” “At first, I did not took that report seriously, - Chuvyrov told. – Though, I decided to go to that yard to see it. I remember this day exactly: July 21, 1999. Under the porch of the house, the slab with some dents lied. The stab was so heavy that we together could not take it out. So I went to the city of Ufa, to ask for help.”

In a week, work was launched in Chandar. After having dug out the slab, the searchers were stroke with its size: it was 148 cm high, 106 cm wide and 16 cm thick. While it weighed at least one ton. The master of the house made special wooden rollers, so the slab was rolled out from the hole. The find was called “Dashka’s stone” (in honour of Alexander Chuvyrov’s granddaughter born the day before it) and transported to the university for investigation. After the slab was cleaned of earth, the scientists could not entrust to their eyes... “At first sight, - Chuvyrov sais, - I understood that was not a simple stone piece, but a real map, and not a simple map, but a three-dimensional. You can see it yourself.”

“How did we manage to identify the place? At first, we could not imagine the map was so ancient. Happily, relief of today’s Bashkiria has not changed so much within millions of years. We could identify Ufa Height, while Ufa Canyon is the main point of our proofs, because we carried out geological studies and found its track where it must be according to the ancient map. Displacement of the canyon happened because of tectonic stabs which moved from East. The group of Russian and Chinese specialists in the field of cartography, physics, mathematics, geology, chemistry, and Old Chinese language managed to precisely find out that the slab contains the map of Ural region, with rivers Belya, Ufimka, Sutolka,” – Alexander Chuvyrov said while showing the lines on the stone to the journalists. – You can see Ufa Canyon – the break of the earth’s crust, stretched out from the city of Ufa to the city of Sterlitimak. At the moment, Urshak River runs over the former canyon.” The map is done on a scale 1 : 1.1 km.

Alexander Chuvyrov, being physicist, has got into the habit of entrusting only to results of investigation. While today there are such facts.

Geological structure of the slab was determined: it cosists of three levels. The base is 14 cm chick, made of the firmest dolomite. The second level is probably the most interesting, “made” of diopside glas. The technology of its treatement is not known to modern science. Actually, the picture is marked on this level. While the third level is 2 mm thick and made of calcium porcelain protecting the map from external impact.

“It should be noticed, - the professor said, - that the relief has not been manually made by an ancient stonecutter. It is simply impossible. It is obvious that the stone was machined.” X-ray photographs confirmed that the slab was of artificial origin and has been made with some precision tools.

At first, the scientists supposed that the ancient map could have been made by the ancient Chinese, because of vertical inscriptions on the map. As well known, vertical literature was used in Old Chinese language before 3rd century. To check his supposition, professor Chuvyrov visited Chinese empire library. Within 40 minutes he could spend in the library according to the permission he looked through several rare books, though no one of them contained literature similar to that one on the slab. After the meeting with his colleagues from Hunan university, he completely gave up the version about “Chinese track.” The scientist concluded that porcelain covering the slab had never been used in China. Although all the efforts to decipher the inscriptions were fruitless, it was found out that the literature had hieroglyphic-syllabic character. Chuvyrov, however, states he has deciphered one sign on the map: it signifies latitude of today’s city of Ufa.

The longer the slab was studied, the more mysteries appeared. On the map, a giant irrigative system could be seen: in addition to the rivers, there are two 500-metre-wide channel systems, 12 dams, 300-500 metres wide, approximately 10 km long and 3 km deep each. The dams most likely helped in turning water in either side, while to create them over 1 quadrillion cubic metres of earth was shifted. In comparison with that irrigative system, Volga-Don Channel looks like a scratch on the today’s relief. As a physicist, Alexander Chuvyrov supposes that now mankind can build only a small part of what is pictured on the map. According to the map, initially, Belaya River had an artificial river-bad.

It was difficult to determine even an approximate age of the slab. At first, radiocarbonic analysis was carried out, afterwards levels of stab were scanned with uranium chronometer, though the investigations showed different results and the age of the slab remained unclear. While examining the stone, two shells were found on its surface. The age of one of them – Navicopsina munitus of Gyrodeidae family - is about 500 million years, while of the second one – Ecculiomphalus princeps of Ecculiomphalinae subfamily - is about 120 million years. Namely that age was accepted as a “working version.” “The map was probably created at the time when the Earth’s magnetic pole situated in the today’s area of Franz Josef Land, while this was exactly 120 million years ago, - professor Chuvyrov says. – The map we have is beyond of traditional perception of mankind and we need a long time to get used to it. We have got used to our miracle. At first we thought that the stone was about 3,000 years. Though, that age was gradually growing, till we identified the shells ingrained in the stone to sign some objects. Though, who could guarantee that the shell was alive while being ingrained in the map? The map’s creator probably used a petrified find.”

What could be the destination of the map? That is probably the most interesting thing. Materials of the Bashkir find were already investigated in Centre of Historical Cartography in Visconsin, USA. The Americans were amazed. According to them, such three-dimensional map could have only one destination – a navigational one, while it could be worked out only through aerospace survey. Moreover, namely now in the US, work is being carried out at creation of world three-dimensional map like that. Though, the Americans intend to complete the work only to 2010. The question is that while compiling such three-dimensional map, it is necessary to work over too many figures. “Try to map at least a mountain! – Chuvyrov says. – The technology of compiling such maps demands super-power computers and aerospace survey from the Shuttle.” So, who then did created this map? Chuvyrov, while speaking about the unknown cartographers, is wary: “I do not like talks about some UFO  and extraterrestrial. Let us call the author of the map simply – the creator.”

It looks like that who lived and built at that time used only air transport means: there is no ways on the map. Or they, probably, used water ways. There is also an opinion, that the authors of the ancient map did not live there at all, but only prepared that place for settlement through draining the land. This seems to be the most probable version, though nothing could be stated for the time being. Why not to assume that the authors belonged to a civilization which existed earlier?

Latest investigations of the map bring one sensation after another. Now, the scientists are sure of the map being only a fragment of a big map of the Earth. According to some hypothesis, there were totally 348 fragments like that. The other fragments could be probably somewhere near there. In outskirts of Chandar, the scientists took over 400 samples of soil and found out that the whole map had been most likely situated in the gorge of Sokolinaya Mountain (Falcon Mountain). Though, during the glacial epoch it was tore to pieces. But if the scientists manage to gather the “mosaic,” the map should have an approximate seize of 340 x 340 m. After having studied the archive materials, Chuvyrov ascertained approximate place where four pieces could be situated: one could lie under one house in Chandar, the other – under the house of merchant Khasanov, the third – under one of the village baths, the fourth – under the bridge’s pier of the local narrow-gauge railway.

In the meanwhile, Bashkir scientists send out information about their find to different scientific centres of the world; in several international congresses, they have already given reports on the subject: The Civil Engineering Works Map of an Unknown Civilization of South Ural.”

The find of Bashkir scientists has no analogues. With only one exclusion. When the research was at its height, a small stone – chalcedony - got to professor Chuvyrov’s table, containing a similar relief. Probably somebody, who saw the stab wanted to copy the relief. Though, who and why?

Translated by Vera Solovieva

The following URL contains a small image of the "stone" map.

www.mysteriousearth.com 

Very interesting posts Greg, thank you. I personally think that the gods might have been visiting us at irregular intervals for quite a while - possibly since our very beginnings as a relatively smart specie, or beyond that. And today, since most mythological sources seem to imply that these gods would be physically identical to us, I think that they have merged with our civilization.

The gods today could be nothing more than "human", with perhaps a longer lifespan and a technological and economical edge over the rest of us. In other words, they're still running things through whatever means, and they've adopted Earth as their new home. They've had thousands of years to pile up war spoils and riches and use propaganda to bend and direct us their way, I don't see why they couldn't be still around.